They will seek to prevent others in believing the revealed Word of Truth and will persecute those who will receive it in faith. destroyed all of them 30 it will be like that on the day that the Son A remnant will survive. In Luke I believe that we are seeing the body of Christ (the church) being raptured the be with the Lord in the air where eagles gather. Thank God his saints will be taken at some point to their eternal reward (exactly when is a hotly contested point among eschatologists). We all agree on that point. And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. (7) For the mystery of iniquity Alstorph. . His answer clearly reveals that all who were left would be dead and their bodies would be food for the eagles. This is a picture* of angels that are in the process of transporting from earth newly departed peoples' souls, through the legendary dark tunnel, to the heavenly light in the far distance. @majnemzdn Are you a riddle wrapped in an enigma..;>) ? grinding. About UsContact UsPrayer RequestsPrivacy Policy, Latest AnswersBible LessonsBibleAsk LIVEOnline Bible. What Is the Difference Between 'Man' And 'Son of Man' in Num 23:19? Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give an account thereof in the Day of Judgment. And Noah and Lot are used as examples of those left behind and surviving destruction; Noah survived the flood but everyone else was destroyed and Lot survived the fiery brimstone but everyone else was destroyed. Luke 17:35 (NASB) Matthew 24:40-41 communicates the same facts. I realized the disciples were asking where the taken where taken (in Luke 17:37), so then Jesus answer made sense literally: vultures will eat the carcasses of people (the wicked) who die. They will want you to return evil for their evil when they speak against you for receiving it. John 14:29-31 KJV (29) And now I have told you before it come to 04 Mar 2023 00:06:00 The words in the Olivet Discourse come after the Lord has given a chronological description of events following this Church age and lasting for the 7 years of the Tribulation, culminating in the glorious return of Christ to the earth to establish His kingdom and to reign on the throne of David. Matthew 24:40-41 communicates the same facts. A good man will bring good things out of his heart while an evil heart shall speak a multitude of evil words. We must also leave the churches of the unbelievers in this coming time or be consumed in the iniquity of the city as we may render evil for their evil if we stay too long. Luke 17:33-37 says, "Remember Lot's wife. Real Questions. Saints: being, the Vultures will gather! It is the only interpretation that is true to the literal meaning of the words and the Jewish context of the passage. This is the great judgment/wrath at Christ's Second Coming, when God kills His enemies and instructs scavenger-birds to gather and eat their corpses (Revelation 19:17-21). John 12:47-49 KJV (47) And if any man hear my words, and believe not, In this passage, Jesus is referring to those who would be taken, and those who would be "Left Behind". It is described in Matthew 25:31-46. Check your inbox or spam folder to confirm your subscription. Luke 17:34 (NASB), I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. Unfortunately these are the people that have missed or not heeded the warning of Jesus to "flee to the mountains" after the unveiling of the abomination of desolation. Luke 17:30-37 KJV (30) Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter Luke 17:34-35, The Fate of the Raptured Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2014 in Bible Commentary | 1 comment I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. The words in question are very similar in both passages: Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. One obvious key word in our passage is "day"and "days," hmera. Who is being taken in Matthew 24:40-41? The verb grinding is feminine. That is, Ezekiel 39 and Revelation 19 also appear to be parallel as apparent eschatological events of predictive prophecy, since both chapters also mention the birds of prey devouring those judged on earth at that time. of man is revealed. It is clear that the "rapture" is for those to be devoured. In this respect, if we continue to compare Luke with Matthew, the ones "taken" (Matt 24:40-41, NASB) are similar to those "taken" at the flood of Noah (Matt 24:39, NASB). the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the Luke 17:34 and Matthew 24:40 both describe events that will occur at the Goat and Sheep Judgment. When the righteous (think about righteous Lot here) are taken out of the churches of the unbelievers, then the Wicked are revealed as they will speak evil words against the believers who leave. Points 10 and 11 (Luke 17:34-35) say that "one will be taken and the other left" and this is the Rapture. When it comes, it will be as obvious as the lightning which flashes and lights up the entire sky. The ones who are taken are destroyed, just like the flood story of Noah, the flood came and took them all away, Matthew 24: 39. that Lot left Sodom, it rained fire and sulfur from heaven and We must be faithful to the context which is Israel in the last days. the city. Moreover, his kingdom will be without end. 35 There will be two women grinding together. But most importantly the word for body is NOT a dead carcase (ptoma) but a living body (soma)! : [Pro 30:17 KJV] 17 The eye [that] mocketh at [his] father, and despiseth to obey [his] mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out, and the young eagles shall eat it. Any date. For instance, He didnt have to. Mark 13, Luke 17:20 - 37 and Matthew 24-25 are the Words of Jesus giving His Olivet Discourse. those who are in the country enter her.". in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this Luke 17:34-37 (NIV84) 34 "I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. The two great signs to Israel will be the sudden, global disappearance of indiviuals which we know to be the Church and the signing of a seven year covenant with Antichrist. The people being taken away in Matthew 24:40-41 and Luke 17:34-36 are being judged and destroyed. We who believe must ARISE and go from here and snatch others from the coming fire as well. In addition, the goat nations who receive the mark of the Beast during the Tribulation, will be brought before the throne of Christs glory and be cast into everlasting fire (Matthew 25:31-46). giving in marriage, until the day Noah entered the ark, 39 and they The same statement is found in Matthew 24:28 except that the word "body" is replaced with "carcase". Brian Bell notes that "this is the last teaching of a long Sabbath day that started in Lk 14:1. There we discover Luke 17:30-35 and Matthew 24:37-41 are illustrations of the Judgment of the Nations, which is also called the Sheep and Goat Judgment (Matthew 25:31-46). Jesus prayer was answered when Jew and Gentile became ONE in Christ on the day of Pentecost. (34) I tell you, in And verse 37 confirms that as well And they answered and said unto him, Where Lord? Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed (Luke 17:2830). The NKJV translates the Greek word duoas two men in Luke 17:34, but the NASB does not. Jesus indicates that the world will be evil like the days of Noah and like the days of Lot. And also consider in the next passage the birds of prey where they are doing the devouring and the sequence of events. First I must acknowledge that faithful men may take a different view but the important thing is not to take any position simply because a particular scholar teaches it. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. I know this is an old post but I have a few comments. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? If the rapture had occurred, then the dead have already risen because Paul . In other words, an equally legitimate interpretation of the disciples' question is that the disciples wanted to know where the events Jesus was telling them about would take place. therefore, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. We are to also not look behind to return evil for their evil that will certainly come out of their mouths as one leaves the churches of the unbelievers. Two women shall be grinding together; the one, Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers. Luke 16. It would be true to say that the Disciples could not have understood Jesus to be referring to the Rapture but to say that Jesus was not speaking of the Rapture is just a wrong exposition. Clarify Share Report Asked July 23 2021 Jack Gutknecht Answers (3) Luke 17:34 describes what will happen after the judgment. Luke 17:34 (NKJV). Below you will see three different translations of the original Greek Koine. "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdom of the Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever" (Revelation 11:15b). English Standard Version Matthew 13:30 . If the allusion is also literal, then these birds of prey may refer to Rev 19:17-18 and Ezek 39:17-20, but in such a case, the salient meaning of this passage in context would remain the same (i.e., judgment on earth evident from heaven). Search. If so this might help explain the 1.1 million non-combatants killed in the judgment that fell around 70ad and why Revelation refers to the Jews hiding in the rocks of the hills, wishing that they had died in the war. whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you It is taken to mean that one day believers will be secretly "raptured" away and the rest will be "left behind." What's the problem here, you ask? There are two things that must agree in the interpretation of any passage of Scripture. Two men walking up a hill,/ One disappears and one's left standing still;/ I wish we'd all been ready. Other Translations for Luke 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shal be taken, the other shall be left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.. The birds come to pluck out their eyes as they eat their carcasses: [Isa 5:25 NKJV] 25 Therefore the anger of the LORD is aroused against His people; He has stretched out His hand against them And stricken them, And the hills trembled. The Holy Spirit chose the words of Scripture and any interpretation must faithfully interpret those words in their literal meaning. Their carcasses [were] as refuse in the midst of the streets. But Luke 17:35 is much more clear. Antichrist will be slain with his False Prophet and they will be given their resurrection bodies and cast alive into the lake of fire. for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you. But we cannot assume that the Lord is talking about the same people when He spoke of some who are taken and received to Himself while others are left; put away in judgment. Revelation 6:15-17; 2 Thessalonians 2:8; Isaiah 11:4 _____ Rebuttals 12. This is the correct interpretation of one taken and the other left. However, I am dissatisfied with the answers given, as they are either "off the wall", or "I don't know-but I think this". Luke 17:37 says " Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together ". The word for taken in Luke 17:34 is the Greek word paralamban, which means to receive from and is the same Greek word that is used in John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. This seems to refer to Christ taking the church in the event of the rapture rather than some other sort of taken. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. (37) And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? I have watched eagles circling, rising higher and higher. 37 "Where, Lord?" they asked. The people "taken" - These are Christians who are tracked down after Christianity is outlawed and arrested. Why did the disciples have so much trouble recognizing Jesus after his resurrection? on me; (10) Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see First, if we read the three verses leading up to this text, we find this: As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man. or 'There!' Is it possible to create a concave light? (49) For I have not spoken of myself; but The Word of God spoken is the sword of Himand all the fowls are the evil multitude of words that the unbelievers will speak in the Day of Judgment and are condemned. They will rise like eagles ascending on the hot air draft until we disappear from sight through the door of heaven forever with the Lord! The phrase "the end of the age," of course, comes from Jesus' "Great Commission" found in Matthew 28, specifically verse 20. They will not be able to receive His words and will gnash their teeth in rage towards what they hear. Nevertheless He gave the Disciples three signs that would indicate when the Kingdom would be established. The passage here in Luke 17 in many ways parallels that of Matthew 24. (12) I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city. We are to leave it all behind (all of their church thoughts and ways) and take nothing of them with us so that we follow the Lord in His footsteps and suffer without the camp by the keeping of His sacrifice as they will persecute us for leaving them. At that height the eagles have perfect vision and can see a mouse on the ground and we too will have perfect vision, we will understand how all the way the Lord has led us. eg. Then, Jesus gives another example for the same concept Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. All Rights Reserved. Paralambano means to receive to ones self. I believe that Luke 17 has the rapture in mind and the verse in question should read where the body is, there the eagles will gather. The word is body in Luke and corpse in Matt 24. Resurrection Accounts Resurrection of Christ, Thus says the LORD, Let not a wise man boast of his wisdom, and let not the mighty man boast of his might, let not a rich man boast of his riches; but let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me . supper of the great God; (18) That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and It would make sense that those taken will be devoured. The believers that are taken are not to look back (remember Lots wife) to their churches but just leave it all behind. The Lord shall consume them with the Spirit of His mouth as they will gnash their teeth in rage against what they hear Him saying and will speak all kinds of evil in resistance which will destroy themselves. For more information on the Goat and Sheep Judgment, please read, When and where does the Goat and Sheep judgment occur? This is also called the Judgment of the Nations. The armies that follow them will likewise be slain. Though there are widely disparate opinions about what Jesus meant by his use of this phrase, I suggest there is a unanimity among conservative scholars that God is going to bring history as we know it to a conclusion, at which time he will usher in the new heaven and the new earth. Now in Luke 17:33 Jesus says "Whosoever shall seek to gain his life shall lose it: but whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it", In other words the people "taken" are believers (like Lot's wife) who unfortunately are seeking to preserve their life by sadly being attached like Lot's wife was to her lifestyle in Sodom. As Lot was taken out of Sodom before its destruction, we who will believe in Him also are to be taken from among the unbelievers. One will be taken and the other left. (Matthew 24:40-42). for out of the abundance of the heart The words quoted in Luke 17 come after the Lord had answered the Pharisees question about the timing of the Kingdom of God. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. What sort of strategies would a medieval military use against a fantasy giant? He has revealed to us the" mystery of his will"(Ephesians 1:9) Learning about it can lead to salvation and can provide you with a glimpse into the Creator's unfathomable wisdom. The ones taken were saved and the ones left were the ones destroyed by the flood. 41 Two women will be grinding meal He calls himself , because he saves us by his death, and feeds us by his body, in his Church, Word, and sacraments . I would like to comment on the Lords words in Luke 17:34-37 and Matthew 24:40-41. One will be taken and the other left. 2) The Great Tribulation at Point 3. The word for eagle occurs 4 times in the New Testament and always from the same Greek word. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. . 37 For as the days of These two signs will occur at the same time and will send an unmistakable message to 144,000 Jewish men who will instantly turn to Jesus Christ. If you feel an answer is not 100% Bible based, then leave a comment, and we'll be sure to review it. shall lose his life shall preserve it. them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath 35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left. 35 There will be two women grinding together. We must "ARISE" and go away from the company of the "dead"the unbelievers who will hear the revealed Word of Truth and will not believe in it when they do. If you interpret the passage to mean those taken are taken in judgment you have to change the meaning of words. The "brightness of His presence" = the keeping of His sacrifice (the Lamb) in our lives in the persecution by not returning evil for their evil. See texts below. In the book of Daniel 9:26 it states "The end will come like a flood" Here is a parallel that liken the two ends as similar. Luke 17:34-35 (KJV) - I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. There He simply said day that the Son of Man. The term Son of Man is a reference to Himself. Most Popular. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. Inded, welcome! (Luke 17:34) The day that the Son of Man is revealed seems to be the same day on which destruction comes, the day when one is taken and another left. They will also be tormented in the presence of the holy angels.the messengers.the words of our Lord which are life and spirit. How to prove that the supernatural or paranormal doesn't exist? In the same way it would be wrong to say Jesus was not speaking of the Church when He spoke of other sheep which are not of this fold. Why is this the case? Now lets read the verses you are referring to in (Luke 3436): I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Luke-21:25-34-kjv. They all deal with the same subject matter, the coming of His Kingdom, not the rapture. them, Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered.. The prince of this world.those who love the preeminence (love to be first) among the churches will have nothing to do with Him as they will come forth to persecute those who will receive His words and exercise their authority over the churches as they will act like Diotrephes did. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Points 10 and 11 (Luke 17:34-35) say that "one will be taken and the other left" and this is the Rapture. 34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. The eagles will be gathered together as they will speak a multitude of words as they will persecute those that leave them. I tell you, in that night there will be two in one bed. Luke 17 provides further powerful proof of the order of gatherings, as if the harmony of several passages so far were not enough. treasure bringeth forth evil things. not open the mouth to render evil for their evil. world. them, Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered Christians/Jews that flee to refuge in the wilderness and give up on their comfortable life but are consequently spared. Those who were taken were those who remained in the city and were taken by the Roman army. (34) O generation of vipers, how can ye, Luke makes allusion to the same people but instead of "taken" (as appears in the NASB of Matthew) Luke mentions the "destruction" of those at the time of the flood (Luke 17:27, NASB). bear them now. together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Most of the entries in the NAME column of the output from lsof +D /tmp do not begin with /tmp. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against him who was sitting on the horse and against his army. daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of I dont believe that Luke 17 and Matt 24 are parallel passages. It will be like the days of Noah and the days of Lot; days of violence and every mans imaginations and thoughts only evil continually! Here is Jesus' answer to the "when question," which I have paraphrased quite liberally: The day to which you are referring concerns the denouement of the Son of Man on the "Day of the Lord" which the prophets of old predicted. Other scriptures could be added such as John 14:3 which clearly refers to the Rapture though, at the time, Jesus ministry was confined to the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matthew 10:6). I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the It has come to my attention, and as I understand it, that those who insist that the rapture verses of Matthew 24:40-41 and Luke 17:34-36 are, in their opinion, a judgment of the unsaved, are saying that the Greek word "paralambn" - as found in another passage of Scripture - can carry the connotation of judgment. Jesus second illustration in verse 35 is about two people who will be grinding at a mill. When and where does the Goat and Sheep judgment occur? Since those who subscribe to amillennialism don't believe in rapture, how do they interpret Luke 17:30-34. mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not And he said unto them, wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together (Luke 17:37). shalt be condemned. Im Matthew 24:28 the context is look out for false Christs, they are every where. Vultures devour. And the rest were slain by the sword that came from the mouth of him who was sitting on the horse, and all the birds were gorged with their flesh. Luke 17:34-36 Some use Luke 17:34-36 to teach the secret rapture belief but to understand the complete picture of this passage, we need to read the verses before and after. Thus eagles in Luke 17:37 could refer angels. doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. There is no rapture here. me no more; (11) Of judgment, because the prince of this world is Matthew 24:40-41 (NASB) Event After the Second Coming of Christ Sin is present in their multitude of words and this shall destroy them in Gods righteous judgment upon them. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. We are to leave it all behind for His sake and the good news of our salvation that we hear in the Word of Truth spoken to our hearing ears from Heaven above. (1-2) The danger of stumbling another. 36 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. "And they answered and said to Him, Where, Lord? So He said to them, Doesnt Luke 17:34-36 support the secret rapture belief? After Jesus said, one would be taken and the other left, the disciples asked where they would be left. Luke 17:34-35, The disciples are interested to know about those taken away and its location, And they said to him, "Where, Lord?" Israel were the sheep in the fold but the Church was a future flock of Jews and Gentiles, all one in Christ. together; one will be taken and one will be left. presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: The short answer is that in the narratives of Matt 24, Lk 21, and Mk 13, Jesus is speaking of the siege of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple by the armies of Rome. Thank you! Write by: . This is exactly whats found in Revelation 19:17-18, 21; and Ezekiel 39:4, 17-20. John 14:3). Luke 17:30-33(NASB). They will "weary" themselves to get you to speak evil back so that they are justified in their own eyes. Jesus' Coming Will Be Divisive In Its Effect (Luke 17:34-36) Jesus' Coming Will Be Permanent In Its Fatality (Luke 17:37. will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. (8) And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of (31) But that the world may know that I love There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken and the other will be left. Their very own words will eat the flesh of those who will (in unbelief) resist what the Spirit says in this coming time in the Day of Judgment. Recovering from a blunder I made while emailing a professor. So what does it mean that "the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city"? Luke 17:34 This is not the sudden catching up (or rapture) of believers as described in 1 Thess 4:13-18 when Christ returns in the air (not to earth), and gathers believers to be with Him. And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together. Eagles go for bodies, vultures go for corpses. Jesus Second Coming is for those who have believed in Him for the forgiveness of their sins. knew nothing until the flood came and swept them all away, so too will I tell you, in that night there shall be two. All Sermons Bible Studies Devotionals Prayers. c. 15. p. 90, 91. , 37 "And they answered and said to Him, Where, Lord? So He said to be the coming of the Son of Man. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. free and bond, both small and great. So those taken were killed in flood. It has come to my attention, and as I understand it, that those who insist that the rapture verses of Matthew 24:40-41 and Luke 17:34-36 are, in their opinion, a judgment of the unsaved, are saying that the Greek word "paralambn" - as found in another passage of Scripture - can carry the connotation of judgment. (34-35) cannot refer to the rapture as it is commonly taught, which is said to take place before the Second Coming. 24 answer, and I originally didn't see the Luke 17 answer on CSE. We are to keep His sacrifice in the presence of their persecutions by not returning evil for their evil. So Luke names 4 qualities of a true disciple: Offences; Forgiveness; Faith; & Service. place; for the LORD will destroy this city. What was the importance of the horns of the altar (Amos 3:14)? At the very same moment the head of the Revived Roman Empire will sign a 7 year peace treaty and Jews will be able to rebuild their temple. For a more complete explanation, please see Judgment of the Nations, also called the Sheep and Goat Judgment. For those who believe that Luke 17:34-36 is not speaking of the rapture but of the judgment after Christ's Second Coming and that those taken are the wicked, I must point out a few things and conclude with a determining factor. Welcome to the forum. will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but All the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven are the multitude of words that will fly out of the mouths of all the unbelievers in this coming time.and it is by our words that we are justified and it is by our own words that we are condemned. They are similar but Lukes account took place about a week before the Olivet Discourse. 2 Thessalonians 2:6-8 KJV (6) And now ye know what withholdeth that Many people use these words to support a concept called the rapture.

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